Uma

Consulting with vapers - that's good news!

That's the problem with humans. Most of them demand that their way to feel "well being" be the ONLY way.

Most of what keeps my headmates and I content and happy doesn't match a "normal person's" idea of content and happy.

If vaping gets banned, it will not be the first time there is a ban on something that emensely helps one or more members of my system.
There was a recreational that was legal in our state that made switching hugesly easier for us when one of us used it. That substance is now illegal. I'm fearing the day they take caffeine away from us.

... if you enjoy it, somebody wants it illegal.

It scares the HELL out of me. I just found this great instrument that actually keeps me from smoking and killing myself and there are people who are fighting to take it away and ban it. They don't care if we live or die. I wish I could use my Nursing status to help swing this thing in our direction but for now I do at least have the ability to carry the information I have learned about E-Cigs to my patients who are struggling to quit smoking because it is killing them.

Wow. It's getting ugly, fast.

It's fascinating. The vaping issue could be the largest example of the attempt to quash a viable and clearly superior health product - let's face it, and call it what it is - vaping is largely a smoking cessation activity that is empirically miles ahead of any other device or therapy and, it is Successful!

The ignorance is hard to believe. The evil is appalling.

EU is planning breach of constitution(s)
The following press release was sent out by the German Vapers association IG-ED e.V. in German on Dec. 1st, 2013 and can be found in German here: http://ig-ed.org/2013/12/eu-kommission-plant-verfassungsbruch-oder-wie-demokratie-zur-posse-verkommt/

I just finished the translation for international communities -- for your info or, if you want to circulate it or bring it to the attention of your national press, fine, go ahead.

Best regards,
Hazel

~~~~~~~~


EU is planning breach of the constitution
Or: how democracy degenerates ever more into a farce


A recently leaked EU commission document of unverified origin shows that the EU commission plans to curb the democratic right to free speech in a coup de main at the next trialogue meetings between 3rd and 16th December.

What is it about?

Over the last 2 years, the EU has been working on a revision of the tobacco products directive (TPD2). At the recommendation of the WHO framework of the tobacco control (FCTC) they now also want to regulate the e-cigarette within the tobacco directive; in order to bring the consumption under the same regulations control mechanisms which previously already have been applied to the consumption of tobacco and to forbid them step by step.

Thus, a non-tobacco containing product, which hasnt been approved as a medical product, shall be treated in a tobacco directive more restrictively than the tobacco product itself though it doesnt even contain any tobacco.

However, this contradiction doesnt bar the EU Commission from sticking to their plans. The e-cigarette is a new product, widely unknown to the Members of European Parliament, and before it can even develop any noteworthy market potential, one strives to rather prohibit them on the quiet with the help of deceptive media campaigns and debatable statements of experts, the latter often being merely self-appointed.

What they didnt envisage though were well-informed, partly scientifically experienced, and convinced users of the e-cigarette (generally known as vapers), who had a first-hand experience of the positive effects of the switch from tobacco to e-cigarettes. They couldnt put anything over on them; moreover those users ensured popularity, technical progress, scientific researches and finally initialized a transboundary consumer initiative against the prohibition efforts.

As a consequence, the European Parliament contradicts the plans of the EU-Commission and leaves the e-cigarette within the tobacco directive TPD2 wrongly so, and contrary to the distinct advice of JURI, the European Legal Committee as a non-tobacco product, however also decides for a moderate regulation which the vapers could have accepted for the time being, even though gnashing their teeth.

As the Parliament has to find an agreement with both the European Commission and the Council, the Commission engineers a new scheme: in a very predictive paragraph, the citizen shall be deterred in the future to gather their own information, to build pan-European information channels or even, to use existing ones. Under the cloak of the ban on advertising, the Commission claims brazenly to remove the right to free information as well as the freedom of speech!

In the new claims regarding the TPD2 and hidden within the ban on advertising there is a passage which reads:

d) any form of public or private contribution to radio programmes with the aim or direct or indirect effect of promoting electronic cigarettes is prohibited;
e) any form of public or private contribution to any event, activity or individual with the aim or direct or indirect effect of promoting electronic cigarettes and involving or taking place in several Member States or otherwise having cross-border effects is prohibited;

This means nothing else but a factual ban of e-cigarette forums, blogs, facebook groups, youtube channels, as well as consumers associations and interest groups related to the e-cigarette!

The Vaping Community is well linked-up Europe-wide, they help each other with technical problems, invent novelties, discard useless junk, and above all agitate politically against the regulation frenzy of the EU as in the above-mentioned consumers campaign.

Interest groups and consumers associations like the IG-ED e.V. in Germany (www.iged-org/) are organized by languages and not by national borders, and subsequently would then be forbidden to ever speak out in any media at all.

This is a clear violation of the fundamental democratic right of freedom of expression!

Possibly, this would never have been known to the public, if the EU-Commission had not tried to sell its further claims as a compromise. The truth however, is that they are trying to defend the sinecures of the tobacco and pharmaceutical industries against the e-cigarette: they lay down rules which exclude any of the existing and well-working products and therefore destroy everything which adversely affects their own concepts. By cheer chance by these rules only completely outdated and disputable products of the tobacco industry would get a chance, an industy which currently has begun to edge into the booming market. Noticeably, the pharmaceutical industry seems to be reserved and probably will not enter the market until it can feel safe enough to do so.

Some examples:

-- Ban of refillable atomizers and of liquid refills

The technical development and progress has gained momentum by leaps and bounds in the past few years. From the initial cartridge technology, vapers have long moved on to sophisticated and well-performing tank atomizer systems. In these however, the tobacco companies have only little interest; afer all you can reutilize them nearly without limit, and therefore then own a permanently enduring product which is not desirable as seen from the perspective of competition and profiteering. The pharmaceutical industry, on the other hand, knows how to fill little cartidges a million times. They only have to know what extactly they will be allowed to fill them with.

-- Ban of nearly all flavours which arent also used in NRTs

Without any scientific reasoning and therefore, meaningless. Mostly the argument is urged that tasty liquids beguile kids to vaping and subsequently, smoking. Several studies have already conclusively falsified this assumption.

-- Limitation of nicotine concentration in liquids at 20 mg/ml

Not backed up by science. On the contrary, studies show that sometimes even higher concentrations of nicotine might be recommendable for the switch from tobacco to vapor. The boundary value suggested by the EU Commission has been set merely gratuitiously and lacks any scientific basis.

-- Limitation of nicotine volume in liquids at 10 mg/ml per packaging unit

The only purpose of this rule would be to enable a complete ban of everything but the (completely outdated) cartridge systems of the tobacco industry.

-- Ban of cross-border trading as well as internet trade

Obviously the Commission is eager to regress the EU back in to the 1960s.

-- Steady output of nicotine

Why should a harm-reduced product be able to do something which the really harmful product cant do either? For the time being, there is no semi-luxury product available which would fulfill the requirement of a steady output of the effective agent, something that is typical and normal for pharmaceuticals only. So then, why should this be any different in the distinctly harmreduced alternative to cigarettes?


Here, the EU Commission is doing blatantly and tastelessly the very thing that Commissioner Tonio Borg falsely accused some EU-MEPs of: lobbying for the tobacco and pharmaceutical industries.

Regardless of any health consequences the Commission is trying to destroy a useful product in order to codify the tobacco industry monopoly on nicotine as well as to continuously guarantee the pharmaceutical industry their safe revenues which they generate with almost ineffective nicotine substitutes. Scientific findings pro e-vaping are constantly being ignored and maliciously negated.

Critical and informed users and citizens would be gagged in the future and quite obviously be deprived of their basic civil rights. In general, the freedom of speech is being limited in this way only by political systems that previously had appeared to be extinct in European culture. But the European Commission manages to turn democracies gradually and insidiously into a European dictatorship ("Eurokratur").
.

© IG-ED e.V. December 1st, 2013 --- free for publishing in your country; we would be grateful for indication of source

Pretty sure I wouldn't have gotten up to 2 packs a day if it weren't for my bipolar and my anxiety disorder. I remember, once upon a time, I used to be able to go into work, wait until my lunch break, go smoke three cigarettes, and then go back to work for the rest of the day without a problem. Couldn't do that once everything else kicked in.

The Kato Hammer is a beauty. I was able to get up in personal with the authentic version (the one on the Vape Revolution site), and it is nice and weighty and feels great in my hand. The clone is nice as well, but you can really see the difference in craftsmanship when you see them side by side in person. 101vape has the clone for $49.99.

**Edit. They call the clone the Chammer because it is a Chinese replica. They are giving all the clones names that begin with Chi followed by the name of the original. Just like the Chemesis (Nemesis) and the Chi-Kracken (Kracken).

The ANTZ seem more upset over our habit than of our health. They don't care about health, just money and control.
Beautiful, powerful article!!!

That word for cigarette cracks me right up, always has.
And the idea of people quitting them just makes it even funnier. "I can't seem to quit you. Don't tell my wife."
Not to mention us LGBTs traveling in packs, like wolves.
(My apologies if anyone is offended by my humor. My childish imagination takes a silly sounding word and runs with it till it trips and puts it's eye out.)

My question for the idiot is...
If you are hiding it, how the bloody hell are you "stinking up the room"?
Antis are so whiny.

While picking up my bags at the baggage claim at LHR and someone came up to me and started giving me a verbal licking for stinking up the room with my "cigarette" (they used a British slang term that I don't want to repeat here due to it being offensive in the states.) Instead of getting defensive I said respectfully "It's actually a personal vaporizer." After that they started to get more belligerent and a PO came over and asked what the shouting was about. They replied with "This brazen Yankee moron is stinking up the baggage claim with his tobacco." The officer looked at me and I showed him my eGo-cc and he rolled his eyes and laughed a little. Asked them to take in a deep breath and said "Do you smell any tobacco?" They shook their head and said I was hiding it (how that's possible I wouldn't know). He then told them to move along and came up to me, shook my hand and said he was happy to see someone taking a step towards a healthier life style.

"Another advantage of changing the goal to smoking cessation is to enable us to meet the needs of smokers with depression, bipolar disorder, or schizophrenia, for whom nicotine is very effective in helping them get through the day far fewer disturbing side effects than their prescription medications. "

This is PRECISELY what drove me to use nicotine!
I, individually, have some issues. Mostly depression and some OCD tendancies. However, the effects of prescriptions on a multiple are WILDLY different than for the general population. (If I were to take meds for my depression, my headmates can't even function, let alone have a meaningful life. So much so, the one who we put in charge banned the use of such medications. This effect is probably due to my headmates not having the condition anti-depressants would treat.)
I don't have that problem with a little nicotine. My nicotine use has had almost no affects on my headmates, yet my depression has become managable.
So... why should I not be allowed to avoid lung cancer?

The towns, cities, states, and countries are under seige. There's too many at a time to post about here. Please visit ECF legislature sub forum to keep abreast, and also please join CASAA.org for info. Even CASAA has their hands full trying to keep abreast.
ECF http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/legislation-news/
e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/legislation-news/

A few of the many facing threats:
Washington
Spain
Canada
Europe
NYC
Chicago
Beverly Hills
Your town USA & not so USA

Watch your local towns, cities, city council agenda announcements. They are sneaking in meetings with just a few days notice, called "emergency" meetings.

Why are they doing this? Namely 3 main reasons, all of them centered around money.
1. TSET (tobacco settlement endowment trust like http://www.ok.gov/tset/Grants/) whose smoke money is dwindling extremely fast as more and more smokers switch to vaping. Their programs are under threat of becoming extinct. Their pockets are drying up. The TSET divvies the money up amongst various "health" groups, such as ACA, ALA, ETC, towards tobacco control programs.
2. Smoke tax money is dwindling for the states. The states rely on smoke taxes, gas taxes, carbon taxes, etc, but the money coming in from smoke tax has extremely reduced because of the eCigs popularity. The Attorney Generals of each greedy state are trying desperately to ban the eCig, if they can't be taxed like smokes, which is why they demonize them, to prep for excessive taxes. Until they can tax them the same, they want them completely banned, to force smokers to smoke and keep the tax money rolling in. It's their cash cow, and the cow is drying up.
3. Big Pharma is also showing losses on their smoking cessation products, along with the products associated with smoking. (Allergy pills, cough Meds, etc). Companies, such as the Chantix company, are even going so far as to promote Nicotine Free world instead of smoke free world. Why? Because they promote quitting nicotine without using nicotine. Chantix is owned by Pfizer, pfizer is owned by Johnson & Johnson, Johnson & Johnson is owned by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. The RWF is a foundation which gives grants to towns, cities, universities, etc, towards a nicotine free world.
4. Many of these greedy politicians, cities, are vying for grants and bonuses, smoke tax, from all of the above.
TSET, for example, has been rumored to promote 3 levels of grants, and if a city also bans eCigs, they will receive all 3 levels of grant money. (Bronze, silver, gold).

All these towns are reaching for quick financial rewards, that will dry up quickly, instead of taking their power back. They could easily fix their broken bank accounts by rolling back regulations, taxes, and more. Giving power back to individual business owners, giving spending money back to the working man by not taxing him to death, and so much more. Reason.com recently released a powerful article, explaining just this. http://reason.com/archives/2013/12/03/fixing-california-freer-markets-and-fewe

Please, jump in, visit the Legislature sub forum daily, write your congressman, city councils, sign petitions, join the Twitter bombs, ... There is a LOT each of us can do to save our right to vape.

Many of us have been doing outstanding jobs of fighting the fight, and a huge cyber hug isn't big enough to show us all the appreciation felt by every Vaper out there.
Others don't realize there is a dire fight going on. Hence the reason for this thread.
There is zero time to waste.

Let's fill this thread with the studies that prove eCigs are safer than smokes, minors are not becoming addicted to nicotine like the professional fear mongers say they do (this one is so dam laughable. Hookah pens, popular amongst curious minors, are ZERO NIC, so please, tell us again how vaping zero nic addicts people to nic).
Refutes and debunks, all needed here. A library of truths, a quick reference.

Let's get 'er done.

Signed

Tell it like it is Uma!

Welcome, and thank you for being up front about your stance.

Are you aware of:
The Drexel Study
CASAA.org
Kennedy Onassis research teams, and the studies being performed, notably Dr. Farsalinos
Clive Bates
Dr. Michael Siegel
Dr. Polosos (sp)
Dr. Gilbert Ross
Forbes financial article
CDC's Partial release of a study vs CDC's FULL release of same study
National youth statistics concerning smoking (all time low)
100 French doctors petitioning FOR eCigs
FDA, CDC, a French study, all being debunked and how, why, by whom.
Big Pharma's grants to bribe towns, universities, states, etc into banning their strongest competition, the eCigs
156% ecig users were smokers, http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0079332
TSET's rules for receiving bonus grants...
ALA, ACA, TFK, etc, and all alphabet soup orgs involvement in trying to ban eCigs by suggesting we keep buying smokes until eCigs are taxed the same way

If you are aware of even a few of the above, then why are you in opposition?
We want truths, no propaganda, no agendas, just plain dumb truths.

I'm nicer than I sound. Honest. Welcome!

If you're interested in learning more, I'll round up even more food for thought any time, just ask.

http://www.ecigarette-research.com/web/index.php/2013-04-07-09-50-07/138-cinnamon-flavours-in-e-cigarettes

Details
Created on Thursday, 21 November 2013 17:51
Cinnamon flavours in e-cigarettes: how inappropriate research can misinform the public and the (amateur) professionals

By Dr Farsalinos

Considerable debate has been focused on the issue of cinnamon flavors after a study was published in a toxicology journal declaring that such flavored liquids are cytotoxic. Just one month ago, a study published by our group also found that a cinnamon-flavored liquid was slightly cytotoxic (although still 10 times less toxic that tobacco smoke). I have already sent a letter to the editor of Toxicology in Vitro raising concerns about the latest study they published on cinnamon, however due to significant misinformation spread throughout the social media, I decided to publish this comment.

First of all, it was surprising to see a vendor removing cinnamon flavors from his sales list. According to a well-known e-cigarette activist, When a juice maker that fills thousands of bottles a day does this - you should listen. My response to this is: If the juice maker who fills thousands of bottles a day knew what he was doing, he should have found out about it before any research was published. What I mean is that makers have no idea about the cytotoxicity of their products. They are doing no research, so how would they know? But it is even worse that they are making such moves (to remove cinnamon flavors) without even reading (or understanding) the research they quote.

Let me explain. The latest study by Talbots group discussed about the cytotoxicity of cinnamon flavors in e-cigarette. Interestingly however, IF SOMEONE READS THE PAPER, he will find that the researchers never used any e-cigarette. Moreover, they never produced vapor! They tested the liquids in liquid form, not in vapor. How can you support that the results have implications for e-cigarette users when no e-cigarette was used and no vapor was produced? However, there is a bigger mistake. The authors mentioned that they tested 8 refill liquids with cinnamon flavor. They mention the names of the liquids and the companies they got them from. After personally searching on the internet and communicating with some companies, I found out that 4 of the samples were concentrated flavors, not refills. The authors themselves found cinnamaldehyde (the substance giving the cinnamon flavor in the liquid) at levels that differed between samples by up to 100 times. This confirms what I found: some of their samples were concentrated flavors.

Finally, there is still another problem in their study. They tested the substance itself (cinnamaldehyde) to see how toxic it is. They found it toxic at levels 400 times lower than currently approved for food use. This is a very strange result and it is hard to explain how regulatory authorities have accepted cinnamaldehyde to be available at such high levels (of course, before the approval, several tests were performed and it was not found toxic).The authors have to explain why their findings contradict previous research.

As I mentioned above, a letter to the editor has been sent and is currently evaluated for publication. In short, the results of this study have nothing to do with e-cigarette use and are more applicable to cinnamon use in food (since they tested the liquid in liquid form and they used several concentrated samples). Besides that, the reactions from manufacturers show that, unfortunately, they cannot accept their ignorance and instead of asking an expert so that they get informed, they react in a way that produces panic to vapers, does nothing to protect consumers and only results in a game of public relations tactics. This is even more unfortunate than the mistakes in the research protocol. As a final note, let's not forget that research has shown cinnamon to have anti-inflammatory, anti-oxidant and maybe anti-cancer properties...

These: http://www.litecigusa.net/510_901_808d_Stainless_Steel_Stem_Drip_Tip_p/ss-9-5-stem-driptip.htm

I love the ones I got fro Empire Mods, they're also stainless steel, but the O-rings on those are a bit thicker and fit too snug. The ones I gave the link to fit snug but are much easier to take out of the atty to drip more juice.

And this is reason #578 why I love my extra long drip tips. I rarely have that problem when I use these versus the regular sized drip tips.

Done.

done Thanks UMA!

Thanks for posting Uma!

done.

I've left you a good tip on your other thread.

You have been given answers over and over again.Read what people have already posted for you. This the 3rd thread with the same post. The answers will not change from previous posts you have made about your issue. the pinned thread on this board answers your question. Just because you can't accept an answer you are given does not mean it will change by repeating the same question. If you do not understand the information in the pinned thread, then rebuiling coils is not for you. Now please, stop spamming the boards with the same question over and over again.