Bebop Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I have been puzzled by this phenomenon for a LONG time. And I don't like unsolved problems. I'm like a Terrier. I will persist until I get to the bottom of things..... My mini Davide, evod tank, and mini protank all take the exact same coils. The single coil protank coil. I use the same battery on all of them. 90% of the time its a vision spinner set at a consistent voltage. I rebuild my protank coils the same way every time, the same resistance, same wick. They are for all practical reasons identical. Yet.... The exact same juice from the exact same bottle tastes different in each tank. I get the same amount of vapor. I apply the same technique to each one. Mini Davide- hands down, no question, no doubt, gives GREAT flavor and vapor way above the evod and mini protank. It's glass Mini protank - same vapor production and good flavor but doesn't match the Davide. It's glass. Evod - good vapor production matching the others but flavor is another notch down. Not bad by any means but muted flavor when compared to other two. This tank is plastic. I cannot explain the difference. It's not even close. It is readily and easily discerned. You dont even have to think about it. What explains this difference? It is really perplexing. What other factors could be involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcartervol98 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I think it is the design as well. As most of you know I have vaped one flavor for way over a year. Haven't even tried anything else nor wanted to. The liquid in any other tank I have tried except my Davide mInis tastes way different. If you tried it in a KPT2 and a Davide mini side by side you might not even recognize it as the same flavor. Personally I believe it to be the design of the Mini Davide base and the way once it is filled with liquid it keeps the wick soaked better than any other tank I have tried. It is a little more challenging to fill at times but the end result is worth the little more effort it takes. Secondly it has the PERFECT draw for me and produces clouds of vapor with my VG based liquid I use which I attribute to both the design of the base and the airflow ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compenstine Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Air flow... Do you notice a difference in the airflow (draw) between tanks? The more air flow you get it will increase the flavor to a certain degree. Carter makes a good point too with the saturation of the wick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcartervol98 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Air flow... Do you notice a difference in the airflow (draw) between tanks? The more air flow you get it will increase the flavor to a certain degree. Carter makes a good point too with the saturation of the wick. HUGE difference in the airflow of a KPT2 vs Davide Mini. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compenstine Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I increased the hole size on my KPT minis to get better draw and flavor. I did not do this with my Davide minis, but do notice the flavor did increase with the air flow change on the KPT. The KPT minis to me were like sucking on a plugged straw. Not sure what size I opened it to as I used a dental tool and did it by hand. The base is a soft metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebop Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 Hmmmm......airflow.... Ok lemme check this out........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebop Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 I'll be dadgummed. I just blew out the holes in a pro tank. Instant improvement! Different juice in this one so tough to compare, but no question, improved airflow = improved taste. How did I miss something so obvious? Smh Ok, I'm off to fine tune this. This is good. Thanks guys. I guess they just got it right with the Davide. It definitely is a superior tank Tam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compenstine Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 glad to hear we could help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Yep, I was thinking it's the airflow. In the full sized Davides and KPT2s, I've added the Aerotank bases and noticed better flavor the more I open up the airflow intake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonculp Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I never understood why I like so much more airflow. I guess I know now! One of my favorite tanks was an Aspire ET-S with the little BDC coil. I had drilled the air holes out. It didn't make a big difference. I finally pulled the center pin on the coil and drilled it out. It worked pretty good, but it whistled so bad I couldn't stand it... I guess you live and learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnoh Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 The base of the flavour is P G And the vapour produced is from V G To get a good mix You just gotta fix The ratio of P G to V G. Sorry couldn't help it and I know that doesn't even address your dilemma. If you figure it out, I'd love to know because I experience the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnoh Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Ahhhh belatedly I just read that it might be an airflow issue which gives me pause...... Chrysler had problems with 'Airflow' And vapers have problems with taste though They change coils and tanks We now can give thanks That the problem also was the air flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebop Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 The answer lies in airflow That is for sure Read my next post And I'll give you the cure! .....maybe. jonnoh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebop Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 I didn't touch the davide. It does just fine on it's own. (I'm buying more of these, 2ml or not) The smallest bit I could find on a quick trip to the hardware store was a 1/16th (.062). The original air holes in the protank appear to be roughly 1/32. I drilled out 2 of the three holes and it was probably a little too much. Using rough math, a hole twice as large gives 4Xs the airflow so as it turns out. Drilling 1 hole out to 1/16 was enough to give better performance and is about right. Drilling 2 was not a deal breaker bit probably too much and more than necessary. I drilled out 1 hole on the evod and it wasn't quite enough so I drilled out 2 it was a good improvement. The result: drilling out the protank and the evod greatly improved both vapor and flavor production. However, they still do not meet the Davide as equal. I suspect there are a couple of other factors: 1. The evod is plastic - enough said. Plastic tanks just don't measure up to glass 2. I suspect fine tuning is necessary based on coil resistance and voltage ( an argument for airflow control). Either engineered hole size or more simply airflow control base. 3. Design: there are other design differences in the tanks - capacity, length of chimney, diameter of chimney, inherent restiance in body and base etc... Conclusion - much can be improved by adjusting airflow, either by drilling out holes or using airflow control in combination with voltage and resistance but NOTHING BEATS A GOOD DESIGN! jasonculp, jonnoh, Tam and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthling789 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 3. Design: there are other design differences in the tanks - capacity, length of chimney, diameter of chimney, inherent restiance in body and base etc... Either engineered hole size or more simply airflow control base. Chimney length, diameter, and funnel-shape (think Kayfun/Russian/Orchid) make a huge difference... and airflow-control bases... that is why I use them on my KPT2's So much improvement in flavor, compared to the standard bases! I've not used the Davide tanks, but I suspect the chimney design, coupled with the air-flow-control base are the real keys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I much prefer my Davide and Davide mini to the KPT2s. On the full sized Davids, add the Aerotank airflow base and it's amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparc Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I've read that more airflow reduces flavor while less airflow increases flavors. More airflow increase vapor production while reducing flavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcartervol98 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I've read that more airflow reduces flavor while less airflow increases flavors. More airflow increase vapor production while reducing flavor. I would have to say this is false imo. I think more airflow increases flavor and vapor production when talking about tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebop Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 I think there may be some differences between tanks and dripprrs, particularly sub ohming. I can see how excessive air can diminish flavor. There seems to be more to it than just airflow and there seems to be an optimum airflow in either case. There are just enough other factors in play that you can't pin it just on airflow. I find it intriguing that there is so much difference between devices that have the same juice and the same coil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparc Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I would have to say this is false imo. I think more airflow increases flavor and vapor production when talking about tanks. The increased air dilutes the flavor. That's how it is with RDA/RBA A known mod/atty producer in Europe created one of their tank atty using 3 air flow holes. Then they redesigned the air inlet to a slot type to increase air flow for the US cloud chasers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcartervol98 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I think there may be some differences between tanks and dripprrs, particularly sub ohming. I can see how excessive air can diminish flavor. There seems to be more to it than just airflow and there seems to be an optimum airflow in either case. There are just enough other factors in play that you can't pin it just on airflow. I find it intriguing that there is so much difference between devices that have the same juice and the same coil. Its just hard to understand the premise that increased air flow diminishes or dilutes flavor when, in this comparison, the tank with the most airflow produced the most flavor and the tank with the least airflow had diminished flavor. I cannot speak for RDA/RBA as I have and will never use one but with tanks I firmly believe it is the correct ratio of air to vapor that produces optimal flavor. I am sure you could have too much airflow but in the comparison being discussed it doesn't seem to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebop Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Right, because airflow traveling over the coil intesifies the vapor production. But it has to be in a correct ratio to be effective much like the air/gas ratio in an internal combustion engine. Without that correct ratio you have inefficiency. Have you ever fired a coil without giving it airflow? It's not like it spits out a ton of vapor until you give it airflow. Even blowing across a coil being fired shows much more vapor. I know this varies depending on the device but you can even just fire off your ego and tank without sucking and it does practically nothing... Edited October 17, 2014 by Bebop12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compenstine Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 How you vape does factor in too. Most cloud chasers take deep lung hits so they bypass the taste receptors more than someone that takes a mouth to lung hit. Yes Massive airflow can decrease flavor as well as lack of airflow. Juice is a factor for Cloud Chasers too because it is high VG. You can not compare an RDA to a Pro tank they are different with different factors to consider. If you open up the airflow on a tank it will give a flavor boost, if you open it up to much on KPT, it will leak and flavor is reduced. I have used both the Davide and the KPT minis. The biggest difference is airflow. BeBop was using the same juice same coil build in different tanks and having the problem. The difference between them is mostly airflow. There is a line where you can have to much airflow or not enough reducing flavor both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliviamia168@yahoo.com Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) I think the choice of liquids make a difference in performance check out exoticseliquid. never seems to clog up - always nice draws ! Edited December 21, 2014 by Tam Removed spammy link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebop Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 Just a follow up I recently made another stupid discovery in the zonexof flavor and taste. A real forehead smacker. I almost exclusively rebuild my protank coils. Once I have wound a coil I put through several cycles of cotton replacement. I don't necessarily rebuild my coils every time. I pull the old wick (cotton), dry burn and dust it off and rewick with fresh cotton. Been working really well. Get superior flavor and vapor production over stock coils. But a little something was nagging at me. I felt the flavor was a little lacking. Proper airflow was key as mentioned earlier. But in my latest batch of rebuilds, something was still bugging me....and I finally figured it out. (Insert forehead slap) My chimneys were dirty. (top section of protank coils) I never noticed this. The unseen build up was incredible. In some case there was gunk halfway closing the chanel. Holy cow. I did a thorough cleaning of the chimneys on my latest builds. BINGO!! All is good in the world. I can't believe I missed this earlier. Dramatic change in flavor. Once more I have proven I am the vaping idiot!! Sweep your chimneys! Tam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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