Christopher Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 ">" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoppaC Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 And Now We Begin!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royce Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Sigh, while I am not trying to defend these officers actions in the slightest there have been problems with Arizona border patrol agents for many years. I do however find it a bit odd that a pastor refused to answer the officers questions since they are all very simple and non intrusive, IE where are you coming from, where are you going especially from San Diego to Phoenix which is a major route for drug and human trafficking from Mexico, and while I understand our 4th amendment right to not be searched without a warrant in a situation like that with the border patrol when you have nothing to hide it’s just easier to let them search, but as I said the pastor declining to let them search his vehicle in no way justifies the violent action these officers used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 I'm sort of in the middle here, although the questions where simple and life would have been much easier had he just answered them, at the end of the day they had no right to search his vehicle. I understand it would have been easier, but when you start sacrificing rights for security and connivance you just throw everything our fathers and their father have fought so hard to keep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royce Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 I'm sort of in the middle here, although the questions where simple and life would have been much easier had he just answered them, at the end of the day they had no right to search his vehicle. I understand it would have been easier, but when you start sacrificing rights for security and connivance you just throw everything our fathers and their father have fought so hard to keep. I totally agree I was just saying kinda weird for a pastor to refuse to answer the questions thats all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 yea no doubt. I was surprised as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacker1229 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 (edited) This pastor has almost 400 videos on YouTube. Hmmm, they say the video has gone viral already. Here is another one. Me thinks he is a little nutsy. Just my opinion. Edited April 19, 2009 by Christopher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 wow I'm looking at his videos and he does seem to have the same type of thing. Police = Bad He may very well be a nut job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoppaC Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Sigh, while I am not trying to defend these officers actions in the slightest there have been problems with Arizona border patrol agents for many years. I do however find it a bit odd that a pastor refused to answer the officers questions since they are all very simple and non intrusive, IE where are you coming from, where are you going especially from San Diego to Phoenix which is a major route for drug and human trafficking from Mexico, and while I understand our 4th amendment right to not be searched without a warrant in a situation like that with the border patrol when you have nothing to hide it’s just easier to let them search, but as I said the pastor declining to let them search his vehicle in no way justifies the violent action these officers used. Chris kinda knows where I'm coming from and my experience, Royce. I must agree with you and Chris. The confusion is growing for a reason. I know for a fact that a minister is supposed to be obedient to the law... Respectful towards authority... Christ was beaten and tortured but He did answer those that accused Him. There is no justification for what the border patrol did to this minister. But I've always had a problem with obstinate ministers or obstinate people in general.... It is not Christ like as the title indicates.... We are not to just roll over and play dead, as believers, but we are never to instigate.... I am, and always will be a fighter... but I would never consider being disrespectfull towards authority.... there are other means to deal with the situation...... And I am not taking the border patrols side..... there is a lot more here than we are seeing..... there is going to be a lot more of this in the future, I fear..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FisherPal Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Well Poppa, it sounds like you and I are on the same page here. Sometimes I think that saying that 'ignorance is bliss' has some merit. However, as much as I feel pretty helpless about what's happening now and what looks like is coming down the pipeline in the future, I'd rather know what the situation is than be blindsided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoppaC Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Interesting statement and an interesting point of view..... I'm not a Holy Roller by any means, but I am not a fool... I am a Christian and there is a love letter written to believers that explains why and what is happening today... It's pretty clear to me... I just can't figure out why others can't see the obvious... too much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FisherPal Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I'm with ya all the way, Poppa! Not a churchgoer by any means but pretty comfortable with my relationship with the Creator. And you know what they say, there are none so blind as those who do not want to see, right? Besides, people that think like us are just conspiracy theorists or nut cases (some people would argue they are the same thing) and who wants to listen to those kind of people? We're in for an interesting ride ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoppaC Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I kinda look at it like if I am wrong I'm just trying to live the right life (I fail a lot) but if I'm right, Wow! Besides, with all my children and grandchildren I really do want to be right. For their sake as well. We are warriors though,don't be fooled, right... Yep, I'm with you. Like Chris has said, there are a lot of extremely inteligent people on this forum...... I can see that and I fully agree with him.... I've enjoyed being on it, even if I do get carried away sometimes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genet1c Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 wow I'm looking at his videos and he does seem to have the same type of thing. Police = Bad He may very well be a nut job He's definitely nuts. I wonder if he goes out of his way to drive through these checkpoints. Although I totally agree with what u said about or forfathers nd stuff chris, I just dont get why he couldnt roll down his window, or give the guy his driver's license. Don't they have to see your face to identify you with your license? If so how can they do that accurately through tinted windows. But what happened to him getting beaten and thrown is jail is totally outrageous. But if he was giving those officers as hard of a time as he was giving the ones in the second video, he had it coming. It was totally illegal what the officers did but thats why you dont f*** with the law. For the most part, they wont ask you to do anything outrageous. They mightve lied about the dog, but that wouldve been a valid excuse if they had found something in the car. If i was one of the officers, i obviously wouldnt have taken it that far as to lie or beat the guy, but I definitely wouldve suspected the guy of hiding something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoppaC Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 It sure appears as though he wasn't acting like a minister of the Lord from what I'm hearing. The Lord said to give unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's. He taught to obey authority. It doesn't appear he did either. Who knows what provoked the border patrol. he is surely a contoversal preacher from what I've seen... and am I not taking up for what the cops did.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FisherPal Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Ahhh .... just read through some previous posts and realize that I can truly be comfortable here. A lot of like minded thinkers on this forum. Whoo hoo. I know there are a lot of people out there who are waking up to the fact that 'the times, they are a-changing'. People up here north of the border are still pretty complacent, I think. Figure that no matter what happens down in the US, it would never happen here. All I can say is that they are in for a big shock. Bottom line is that this isn't 'just' the US - it's the whole dang world. I am pretty darned worried about the future my kids are looking at. They're both in their late teen's so wouldn't listen to anything I had to say anyway and far too young to be able to read the signs. Too young, probably, to even realize what they stand to lose. My hubby and I adopted 'later in life' so we're both in our 50's and ... well ... whatever comes around, we'll handle one way or the other. But the young ones ... sigh. Just have to keep focused on the fact that these times, too, shall pass and eventually there's better things coming. But we sure got some stormy weather approaching. Our politics aren't any better than yours either - more laughable if there was anything to laugh about. Bought and paid for like the rest and only too anxious to sell this country down the road. Okay - enough of my rant for the night. Better go and find something to laugh about. And always keep in mind that great saying from one of my personal favorites ' Desiderata' - With all it's sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 well said well said. And you can post whatever you wish here. (So long as it's not slander) There is still free speech in my forum at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoppaC Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Ahhh .... just read through some previous posts and realize that I can truly be comfortable here. A lot of like minded thinkers on this forum. Whoo hoo. I know there are a lot of people out there who are waking up to the fact that 'the times, they are a-changing'. People up here north of the border are still pretty complacent, I think. Figure that no matter what happens down in the US, it would never happen here. All I can say is that they are in for a big shock. Bottom line is that this isn't 'just' the US - it's the whole dang world. I am pretty darned worried about the future my kids are looking at. They're both in their late teen's so wouldn't listen to anything I had to say anyway and far too young to be able to read the signs. Too young, probably, to even realize what they stand to lose. My hubby and I adopted 'later in life' so we're both in our 50's and ... well ... whatever comes around, we'll handle one way or the other. But the young ones ... sigh. Just have to keep focused on the fact that these times, too, shall pass and eventually there's better things coming. But we sure got some stormy weather approaching. Our politics aren't any better than yours either - more laughable if there was anything to laugh about. Bought and paid for like the rest and only too anxious to sell this country down the road. Okay - enough of my rant for the night. Better go and find something to laugh about. And always keep in mind that great saying from one of my personal favorites ' Desiderata' - With all it's sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy. I agree, and my favorite song is "It's A Wonderful World" by Louis Armstrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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