152 replies to this topic

[Christopher]

I'll wait for this to calm down, everyone is just posting.  Here are my points:

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2) JC is a pretty upfront company, not sure what that is all about other than it is a US manufacturer of juice.

Yea I'm surprised. Well not completely surprised but I thought they where working with the FDA. Although this could be a good time for them to really hold hands and figure out what needs to be done to make this work. At least they're trying.

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3) As far as I know, regulation, wich I'm all for, that usually comes after studies.  I'm pretty sure as far as drugs go, FDA doesn't do the studies, the companies do and they cost money.

That's correct it's up to each company to perform the study.

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4) If its just about the juice, and not nicotine, not sure who does "studies", it usually just testing to make sure things are "safe' and as advertised.

It depends on what the FDA is looking for. If they are looking for long term effects, that could take a very long time. If they're looking for short term, then a company with the right amount of money should be able to get this done.

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5) Do you think a chinese juice company will be allowed to import juice once regulated?

I think this would only be an option if an American company was willing to back them. I'd imagine some type of QC team would have to be sent to the factory to ensure everything was kosher.

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6) Do you think a small Internet company will be allowed to sell juice once regulated?

Depends. If they can resell the liquid that a bigger company has had approved then sure. I suppose if the factories worked with the FDA this might be a possibility but again it's up to the factory in China. I have a feeling smaller suppliers would be limited to hardware.

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Maybe its me, but this appears to be going down a bad road.

What study is a tobacco company doing right now?  Is it e-cig or smokeless?

I'm not 100% sure to be honest. I picked up the information from ECF: Here.

[FTJoe]

GrimmGreen, on 09 September 2010 - 01:09 PM, said:

angry ranting alarmist video up on my yotube now, time for us to TRULY join up as a community

What are we signing up for?  Half the folks here are giving props to the FDA for busting the evil juice makers!!  ;-)

[HyOnLyph]

The average cost to get a drug or drug dispensing device on the market is $800,000,000.00 With phase 1-4 studies all the way to the store.  With the tobacco companies lobbying the FDA to shut down ecigs... could the ecig industry handle that kind of cost?  People will go underground and start condensing their own nicotine.

bmeyer46, on 09 September 2010 - 11:32 AM, said:

ok, time to get pissed.....
the FDA approves drugs for treatment of arthritis, erectile disfunction, high cholesterol etc..etc...ALL of those drugs that the FDA approved have side affects that have been documented, yet there are no reports of any of these kinds of side effects fro E-cigs, yet they want to target this industry?
Somewhere there is a check from Phillip Morris or RJ Reynolds written to the FDA....just gotta find out whose desk it's on.

[SirLawrence]

This is the main reason why Suppliers... either of juice, e-cig devices, mods, ect. should not make any claims whatsoever that e-cigs will help to stop smoking.  So, please suppliers... do not even mention cigarettes or smoking on your websites... Please!

[vapenazi]

pardon my french....but that is F@&$!N horse poo poo......I even a have doctor sellin mine for me now. I really feel the FDA  can flex their muscle, but gonna be tough for them to win this one, they prolly will end up controling it though.

[bmeyer46]

my suggestion since I work for the government is too flood the phone lines to your US representatives, senators or any other political figure and just keep hounding them....I know from experience that whenever there is a rep call our office craps all over itself to get it worked out....whatever the problem is.
email them, phone them, comment on their websites..whatever you can do.
It may NOT help, but it sure can't hurt.

[Christopher]

bmeyer46, on 09 September 2010 - 01:27 PM, said:

my suggestion since I work for the government is too flood the phone lines to your US representatives, senators or any other political figure and just keep hounding them....I know from experience that whenever there is a rep call our office craps all over itself to get it worked out....whatever the problem is.
email them, phone them, comment on their websites..whatever you can do.
It may NOT help, but it sure can't hurt.

I agree 100%. In fact this is what we did with many of the state ban. It helped with the California ban immensely.

[bmeyer46]

https://writerep.hou...p/welcome.shtml

http://www.senate.go...enators_cfm.cfm

hell, contact the whitehouse
http://www.whitehouse.gov/

[LoriHNC]

bmeyer46, on 09 September 2010 - 01:30 PM, said:

https://writerep.hou...p/welcome.shtml

http://www.senate.go...enators_cfm.cfm

hell, contact the whitehouse
http://www.whitehouse.gov/

I will write to all of them. In order for this to be effective though, everyone here and all Vapers of America, must do the same. We gotta be heard!

[StevenP]

WOW, is the FDA that retarded? I quit smoking cause of e-cigarette. Seems the government is feels threatened knowing they're cigarette tax dwindling. Why do I get the feeling big tobacco is celebrating...

[Christopher]

Here is another story that made it to the front page of Google's Health section


http://www.medpageto...DAGeneral/22103

[Merlin]

This is complete BS the FDA as well as our government is a joke, as a by product of becoming "civilized" and coming as far as we have the last 100 years we have all become cattle and don't fight for anything. The government taxes us at will, makes  bad decisions, covers things up and are as corrupt as any organized crime. It really disgusts me as this is a much healthier way to quit smoking, they won't ban cigarettes which are toxic? But want to put e-liquid through the ringer? Don't be surprised if we see a revolt by the American people in our lifetimes.

[owutaqt]

I wish the language was simpler so we could understand exactly what we are fighting.

I don't know if its the ecig part or the liquid part or what.

[LoriHNC]

Christopher, on 09 September 2010 - 01:43 PM, said:

Here is another story that made it to the front page of Google's Health section


http://www.medpageto...DAGeneral/22103

Okay, that article doesn't sound too good. It sounds like all ecig suppliers will be getting a letter to conform to FDA guidelines or not sell them.

[Uma]

LoriHNC, on 09 September 2010 - 02:07 PM, said:

Okay, that article doesn't sound too good. It sounds like all ecig suppliers will be getting a letter to conform to FDA guidelines or not sell them.

that's an awful article.  Very easily misconstrued.

"The FDA has sent letters to five manufacturers of electronic cigarettes warning that they are in violation of federal law by claiming their products help smokers quit.  In order to make such claims, the e-cigarettes would need to be approved by the FDA as drug-delivery devices, the agency said. None are."

That's like saying they're not worth beans and all just a big lie and if they really worked then they would be approved like they do all the weight loss pills.

"No e-cigarette company has submitted an application to the FDA for evaluation or approval, the agency said, although the devices meet the definition of a drug-device product under the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FDCA)."

No ecig company has 800 million dollars to have the tests done so they can submit it.  The lawyers got all the money from the only ecig company that stood a chance at affording the testing.  (surprise surprise).

and then they have the nerve to bring up the antifreeze crappioly ....

edited to include:  But hey!  There's a "CHOOSE A RATING" thingie for this article at the end of the article

Edited by Uma, 09 September 2010 - 02:33 PM.

[BEERCITYVAPRZ]

WTFWTFWTFWTFWTFWTFWTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@#$@ the FDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tim]

While it would seem that this is about nicotine on the one hand -- that e-juice without it should not be subject to regulation -- on the other it seems much more likely the FDA will say that all juice is subject to regulation as it potentially contains all manner of substances.  This could put us all out of the liquids business.  Additionally they are claiming the devices themselves are drug-delivery devices irrespective, presumably, of what they are delivering.  If e-cigs are ruled as such, as drug-delivery devices, then only the deep pockets will be able to play.  The reason PM et al has been silent about marketing a device, one should think, is because they have been playing the legislative game behind the scenes while developing their own devices and liquids.  This is surely a war.  A war in which none of us stands a chance of survival alone and but a marginal chance together.  Certainly we must to the best of our efforts hang together lest, as Benjamin Franklin once opined, we will surely hang separately.  What we need as suppliers is a code of conduct.  Both from an ethical standpoint as well as a protocol for dealing with government agencies.  This necessitates legal counsel of course.  And there are a number of e-cig organizations out there, one, some or all of which may prove an effective vanguard.  The thing for all of us is to be on the same page.  Thoughts?

[Compenstine]

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“FDA invites electronic cigarette firms to work in cooperation with the agency toward the goal of assuring that electronic cigarettes sold in the United States are lawfully marketed,” the letter to the association read.

I think we all saw some regulation coming down the pipe.I think the statement above shows they (the FDA) are not trying to outlaw them permanently. Yes it is not news that is all good but, I think it shows that E-Cigs have a future. It shows the FDA is trying to set standards for safety. I for one have been making my own fluids now from products that I can get in my home town. I think the statement above is a call for those that want to supply the E cig market with high quality products to do so in time legally with FDA approval. I can assure you that even Nicotine patches and gum needed to be cleared through FDA regulations.

[DarthVapor]

bmeyer46, on 09 September 2010 - 11:32 AM, said:

ok, time to get pissed.....
the FDA approves drugs for treatment of arthritis, erectile disfunction, high cholesterol etc..etc...ALL of those drugs that the FDA approved have side affects that have been documented, yet there are no reports of any of these kinds of side effects fro E-cigs, yet they want to target this industry?
Somewhere there is a check from Phillip Morris or RJ Reynolds written to the FDA....just gotta find out whose desk it's on.

Wrong.  The government doesn't like big tobacco, and the feeling is mutual.  However, the government does get big money in the form of taxes from traditional tobacco products that they DON'T get from e-cigs, and that IS the issue.  Until the government gets it's sticky fingers into the e-cig business both through regulation, and taxation, the e-cig business is in jeopardy.

[girldragon]

Compenstine, on 09 September 2010 - 02:53 PM, said:

I think we all saw some regulation coming down the pipe.I think the statement above shows they (the FDA) are not trying to outlaw them permanently. Yes it is not news that is all good but, I think it shows that E-Cigs have a future. It shows the FDA is trying to set standards for safety. I for one have been making my own fluids now from products that I can get in my home town. I think the statement above is a call for those that want to supply the E cig market with high quality products to do so in time legally with FDA approval. I can assure you that even Nicotine patches and gum needed to be cleared through FDA regulations.

Do you get nicotine liquid in your home town? If so where-I am not giving up getting my fix lol! it's going to skyrocket in price after regulation and I want to stock up!