three_sixteen
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Posts posted by three_sixteen
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Now, wait a minute-is the nicotine in the liquid extracted from tobaco plants or synthesized in a lab? If it is a natural extract than the laws that govern tobaco would be the laws that govern e-cigs. Anyone know?
The nicotine in liquid is derived from tobacco, and it's this that grants the FDA governance over e-cigs.
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Listen, I really hate to sound like I'm defending the FDA here - but I didn't see anything in that letter that indicated they were going to treat ALL electronic cigarettes as drug devices. I'm not convinced yet that we need to start freaking out.
Its painfully obvious that they're referring to the five companies they sent letters to with particular focus on the marketers who are putting weight loss and erectile dysfunction drugs into the liquid they sell.
FDA has determined that the electronic cigaretteproducts addressed in the warning letters described above, and similar products, meet the
definitions of both a drug and device under the Act and the definition of a combination product
in 21 C.F.R. Part 3, with a drug primary mode of action.
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I suppose all of that makes it worth noting that a possible avenue would be to derive nicotine from something else, like a tomato plant. The problem could be that the concentration of nicotine in tomato plants isn't as high and so it would take much more raw materials to produce the same amount of nicotine.
Also a possible problem could be that because nicotine is a product of tobacco, even though the it came from a different plant it's still nicotine. I'm not a lawyer :P
Uma beat me to it!
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Well, this frustration led to some further research about nicotine itself. We have found it extremely interesting that when searching the FDA website, we cannot, in fact, find ANY reference to them actually having control over nicotine. When you search Nicotine, they send you to On March 21, 2000, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the U.S. Food and Drug Administration lacks the authority to regulate tobacco. Therefore, FDA no longer maintains its Children and Tobacco Website.!
You lost me here - you're searching in the wrong place and the nicotine in liquid is derived from tobacco.
The FDA is empowered to control tobacco products by H.R. 1256
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1256
You may be interested in TITLE I, SEC 101:
(a) Definition of Tobacco Products- Section 201 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 321) is amended by adding at the end the following:‘(rr)(1) The term ‘tobacco product’ means any product made or derived from tobacco that is intended for human consumption, including any component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product (except for raw materials other than tobacco used in manufacturing a component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product).
If you read the rest of the bill and the laws it modifies it will make quite clear that any product derived from tobacco and any accessory to it, nicotine and e-cigs in this case, is in their domain.
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Looks like a scam to me that link is an affiliate link so if you buy someone make money.
Yes the wall street journal.
It wasn't an affiliate link..
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@Three_Sixteen. I agree if they are only going after companies adding weird crap to E Liquid then they had it coming. But if they start going after regular E Liquid (remember the FDA is also going after PG/Nicotine mixes as well) Then it's a matter of time before the letters start trickling down to everyone else. I HOPE this isn't the case but let's hope for the best.
I hope so too, only time will tell!
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That may be the case but I have a feeling this is big tobacco. I mean what are the chances that Phillip Morris would be doing clinical trials ON THE SAME day that this comes out? Sure perhaps in a couple of years an approved electronic cigarette will be released, but I can tell you right now I'm not buying it from Phillip Morris.
Im not sure I see the connection between PM testing new dip, cigars, non-menthol cigarettes and electronic cigarettes. If PM was testing a brand of their own e-cig you could make an argument that they're trying to stifle the competition. Frankly it sounds to me like some shady vendors got busted for poor marketing practices and putting mystery ingredients into their liquid.
e-cigs should not be marketed as:
- a cure to anything
- a smoking cessation device
- 'tonic'
They should be marketed as:
- a potentially safer alternative to smoking
- a product for people over 18
Ingredients in the liquid should be disclosed and vendors should test to make sure the products they import from China have had nothing added to them. How much would it suck to find out that vendors were selling liquid that contained some incredibly dangerous element in it? I don't want an ED drug or weight loss drugs in stuff I'm inhaling, do you? Sure, labs can look clean - but that doesn't mean nothing is going on behind the scenes. I'll say it again, regulation and taxation is a good thing that will legitimize the products we love and make them safer for everyone.
As best as I can tell right now, e-cigs are only believed to be better than analogs - something I also believe. Any time something comes out that shows we're getting more than we bargain for it dings that reputation of being a cleaner, safer alternative.
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This is a clip from that article that should been seen as a positive.
"But in a letter to the Electronic Cigarette Association, the FDA said the actions against the companies were not meant to be seen as a larger effort to ban e-cigs. The agency encouraged the industry group to work with the FDA to ensure the safety and effectiveness of the devices to help people quit smoking traditional cigarettes through usually expensive clinical trials.
"We are interested in finding out whether e-cigarettes can be proven safe and effective," FDA compliance lawyer Michael Levy said in a conference call."
I think it proves that the FDA is looking out for us, and I'm glad that they are. I definitely do not want to buy products from vendors that add mystery ingredients that I do not want. Regulation and taxation is a good thing, as it legitimizes the industry. Yes, it increases the cost to us - but when it's proven to be safer and vendors follow strict guidelines that are made to protect us in the production of the liquid I will feel a lot better about vaping.
To be perfectly honest, I wish there was a way to test and report on the juice that I do buy, because I worry constantly about hidden ingredients that I don't want and I think people deserve to know exactly what's in the juice they buy.
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I think that, before we freak out, some context is needed - particularly after reading the WSJ article I saw some reasons for concern and would agree with the FDA's decision.
To quote the article:
The FDA said it also cited Johnson Creek Enterprises, which markets Smoke Juice, a liquid solution used to refill depleted cartridges in e-cigarettes, for deficiencies in its manufacturing processes and cited E-Cig Technology for using tadalafil, an erectile dysfunction drug, and rimonabant, a weight loss drug that's not approved for use in the U.S., in some of its products.The RUYAN RAPP E-Mystick is similar in design and function to the other RUYAN products, but instead of containing nicotine, it “contains the active ingredient lobelia . . . an herbal remedy/dietary supplement.” RUYAN RAPP E-Mystick is “marketed exclusively to smoking adults as a tonic” whereby “[t]he product provides smokers quick and effective relief for a number of conditions commonly attributed to tobacco use.” The RUYAN products are offered, among other things, as aids to deter or cease smoking when one cannot or chooses not to smoke conventional tobacco products.Yes, they should *not* be allowed to sell products that contain these things. It will be interesting to see whether or not reputable vendors are also sent cease and desist letters. If the FDA is only trying to shut down vendors who are putting extra things that don't need to be there into their liquid then I whole heartedly agree with them. I am concerned about getting more than I pay for in my liquid and I definitely don't think companies should be allowed to put things in there without disclosing it.
If the FDA sends cease and desist orders to companies who are selling liquid that contains nothing but PG/VG, nicotine, water and flavoring then we should start to be concerned.
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The way I see it, they'll eventually raise taxes so much that people will quit smoking all together or finding other ways to smoke without paying the taxes..
Basically the gov't will raise taxes so much that they'll turn everyone away and stop getting tax money haha
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Agreed. I've gotten as much as 25 drops in when refilling cartomizers; surely depends how dry they are when starting. If they're blank I could imagine they'd hold even more than that. I've never filled a blank, only refilled pre-fills. But I have some that have been refilled as many as five times that still give plenty of flavorful vapor. I liked them on the PT too.
I never thought I would want to bother with filling blanks or even refilling carts, but after getting inconsistent performance out of prefilled cartomizers I wanted to try out the blanks. I get way way better flavor and vapor production out of the carts I filled myself.
Something tells me that the prefilled carts probably sit on a shelf somewhere for a pretty long time and dry out or something, the weird thing is that trying to fill up the poor performing carts doesn't seem to improve their performance
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I just got my first round of blank cartomizers and filled them while leaving the rubber cap with the nipple in. I put 22 drops in mine and when I pulled the cap off, the nipple wasn't even wet.. wondering if you can put even more in?
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(disclaimer, I might be drunk :P)
Just wanted to chime in again after 24 hours, and a trip to the bar.
After using the KR8081-D some more I'm even more happy with it. The vapor production is actually pretty good, and the convenience can't be beat. I've been using the same cartomizer all day and after my battery died at the bar I just swapped the dead battery out with one that's been in my PCC all day. I would agree that a cartomizer equals a pack of cigarettes. Without a bar trip I would smoke a half a pack a day, but when going to the bar I would probably smoke a whole pack in a day. Since I finished a cartomizer in a day with a trip to the bar, I would say that's a pack of cigarettes.
I had some concerns about the vapor production while using the short battery but after figuring out how to take a drag with an ecig I found the same satisfaction (equal 'smoke', better flavor, full cigarette) that I got from an analog cigarette using both the automatic and normal battery.
I know there's some people who say that a bigger battery = more vapor here, but to me the shorter/weaker and longer/stronger battery produce the same amount of vapor.
For someone who needs portability and convienence and isn't a vaporphile the KR808D-1 is definitely for you!
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Tastes like Andies Candies...amazing to vape!
Damn, that's totally a Marlboro smooth.. I know what I'll be buying very soon
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I have to say I agree. I bought the same model from the same place, after first using the Npro. I love my KR808. I love all the convenience, and all the freebees! The best flavor I have found, you have to give it a try, is the Smilin Special Menthol...it is to die for! I have tried many others, as I got a bunch of sampler packs with mine and none compare to that flavor. That is truly going to be my all day, everyday, vape!
Can you describe the flavor at all? I almost got it instead of the cowboy menthol with my PCC kit..
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Has anyone tried using an ultrasonic cleaner with deionized water? It's a very good solvent, much better than straight tap or even distilled water..
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Thanks! I understand there's nothing that tastes like the real thing (yet) but something sorta close is a lot better than say Dr. Pepper or cheeseburger flavors.... Wait, does anyone make a bacon cheeseburger juice? I could quit smoking and not have to worry about gaining weight lol
I'll be in the lab....I remember Burger King was selling some burger scented cologne, I bet a hamburger flavored juice is possible
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So I recieved my ecig today, this is the first device I've tried since the Njoy npro I bought a year ago (almost to the day!).
While shopping these were my concerns:
- Portability
- No fuss for swapping out cartridges or carrying extra batteries
- Some way to recharge my batteries while I'm out and about
- Something that resembled the size of a normal cigarette.
The vapor king from vapor4life met all those needs and after reading a lot of good things about them I went ahead and bought from them!
Instead of buying a starter kit I went ala carte and kind of put my own together. Here's what I bought:
- Vapor King Shorty Mini PCC Kit
- Wall Charger
- Strawberry Cartomizers
- Peanut Butter Cup Cartomizers
- Cowboy Menthol Cartomizers
Here's what I got:
- Vapor King Shorty Mini PCC Kit
- An extra normal size manual battery(!)
- A cloth green case
- Wall charger
- Strawberry cartomizers
- Peanut Butter Cup cartomizers
- Cowboy Menthol cartomizers
- 1 cinnamon roll cartomizer, 1 raspberry cartomizer, 1 red hot candy cartomizer
Both of the batteries were charged when I got them, which was awesome! Also, getting the extra manual battery was a nice bonus! I wanted to try one before I went ahead and bought one and totally got the opportunity
While I don't like it as much as the automatic battery I do seem to get better flavor from it. With the short automatic battery I can hold the ecig like a normal cigarette which is exactly what I was looking for. The manual battery will take some getting used to, but I think I'll get used to it. I am kind of worried about the button getting pressed on it while it's in my pocket, so I may keep it in the PCC and keep the automatic battery in my pocket to avoid that.
Anyway, my first impression is that this is definitely going to fill the void that the npro left and kept me smoking analogs. All of the flavors I got are great! I smoke Marlboro menthol smooths for my analog smokes, and while the cowboy menthol doesn't have the same flavor it's still good! The peanut butter cup is kind of tobbacoy, which is nice. I didn't get much from the fruit/other candy flavors, I suspect this is because I can't taste anything from smoking
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As such, I'm betting all of these things will be better once I can actually taste things again!While the vapor production isn't super fantastic or impressive, it's definitely not something I was worried about and expected when I bought the ecig. I would guess if you're someone who likes lots of vapor that this isn't the ecig for you.
Here are some things I would improve:
- No instruction manual/basic info for the PCC, I had to google around to find out what the status lights on it meant. Including an instruction manual would be nice. The same holds true for the wall charger.
- The USB charging cord for the PCC is super short, maybe 2 inches? It's great for a laptop on a desk or a USB hub, but I think for a tower computer or anything else it's sort of inconvienent. If it extended/retracted that would be a nice bonus.
- The cartomizers have colored stickers over them, I expect these to get funky after awhile (if you plan to reuse them, could be irrelevant with their lifespan anyway), especially with the ones where the sticker hangs off the edge of the cartomizer a bit. Switching it up to a colored plastic or getting rid of them all together would be nice.
- Ditch the screw on the cartomizer and replace it with some kind of snapping/locking mechanism. I can see the holes on the cartomizer for the air and the holes on the battery, lining them up may not be necessary but it would be neat if the snapping/locking mechanism took care of that alignment without having to worry about looking closely to do it yourself
Anyway, I think that's it, all in all I'm very pleased and look forward to showing it off to my coworker tomorrow who's been wanting to get one of these too!
- Portability
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I was thinking today, with all of the different forums and sticky topics and other stuff that it would be nice to have one location where the ecig community as a whole can collaborate on electronic cigarettes. Hopefully it's a good idea, I was getting frustrated with having to search all over for basic info.
Anyway, I've started a wiki on wikia for ecigs and I'm afraid I don't really know enough about ecigs yet to fill it up with info, so I was hoping there would be some people here who may want to help?
The URL is: http://ecigs.wikia.com/
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Wow. So they went from spamming cell phones to distributing e-cigs. Those guys are serious risk takers!
I wish them well in the new venture but man I'm concerned the FDA is gonna step all over their new line of endeavor too. Hopefully they'll be able to weather the storm and come out the other side in bright light. I'm going to watch these guys too, thanks for the heads up.Even if the FDA bans them there are still plenty of customers in plenty of other countries
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I've used it with a fresh battery and a usb PT, but the results are the same. Getting pretty good flavor and throat hit, but little vapor. I'll keep playing with it.
Were you ever able to get better vapor with a cartomizer that you didn't fill yourself? Or were you only able to get good vapor from a cartomizer that you filled yourself?
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This looks like a pretty neat mini. Is it compatible with anything? Like can you put the cartomizer on a 510 battery?
I actually ran into this model while reading around and it looks pretty sweet. Would like to hear someones opinion though, it seems pretty convenient for someone who may not want to deal with having to refill carts or anything.
I've read that the vapor production isn't as good as a 510, but that it's still pretty good.
Would like to know what people think about this model vs the 510 as well as whether a manual is better than an automatic!
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I was a light smoker like you and was concerned about the strength or liquid... I have found that 16mg is perfect for me. May have been a little stronger than I was used to but was just right on...
I have the pcc with the 510 and the pcc is taller than a pack of analogs but thinner... quite easy to carry..
I do have a bottle of Vapor Talk Grape Soda...but have not tried it.... I cannot seem to put the Traditional tobacco and the Dulsis down..
My faves are the TT and the dulsis... Both are great tobacco flavors....dulsis has a sweeter taste kinda like a hint of caramel...
Oh BTW Grape soda smells awesome....just like a grape nehi
Do you take it out to bars with you? Do you have any problems with running out of battery/liquid?
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Welcome 3-16, You should probably start at around 16mg or less. 24mg might be too much for 1/2 a pack a day smoker. If you like grape then definately order VT's Grape Soda.
Awesome! I'm probably right when I assume that it will be better than njoy's menthol flavor? :P
Fda Classifying Ecig As Drug Product
in General Vape News
Posted
Why was Johnson Creek putting a generic version of Cialis in their liquid? That makes their e-cig a drug delivery device, which is exactly what the FDA is complaining about.
Like I said in another thread, once the FDA starts sending cease and desist letters to people who aren't selling their products as smoking cessation devices or putting pharmaceuticals in their products we can start to safely worry.