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Christopher

Fda Very Bad News

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More supplier need to add warnings agree. We require that certified suppliers at least require an 18 and up warning but other than that most suppliers don't add a warning. Our store contains the following and ALWAYS has since the site was opened

It's also part of our terms when a customer checks out. (All customers must agree to the terms) To top that off we also added warning on our bottles (VERY few suppliers have warnings on their bottles) It's time suppliers started to jump on the band wagon already. For their own protection at least.

Wow Chris you couldn't of said that any better, That entire post just says it all, These are the main reasons this fda bs is happening, Another prime example suppliers putting out 48mg level nic and leaving the bottle look totally unprofessional without proper labeling letting us know all the important info and non child proof caps, ect. ect.

Edited by BEERCITYVAPRZ

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Ok, so I'm one of the blokes who wants to support the cause, but am far too lost in my understanding of all the details. Perhaps I missed it somewhere, but has anyone posted a formal letter for us to copy/paste to our reps and the gubment? I've seen links all over the place as well. Perhaps a new sticky thread, or an edit of the original post in this thread is in order?

I always feel like I'm copping out when I ask for help like this, but I think I represent a fairly large chunk of any forum userbase when I say "just show me where to sign". If you want more action and less talk, help us lower-wits to take that action please!

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P.S. There may be other copy/paste letters around the forum, I just want to make sure whatever I send in has proper wording and context for the current situation.

Edited by mmseng

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Facts everyone should know about e-juice: [ The nicotine "strength" is measured in mg/ml (not per bottle) ][ The LD50 (lethal dose) of nicotine is around 40mg ][ There are about 20 drops in a ml ][ Thus, directly absorbed into the skin, the following can be lethal: 133 drops at 6mg strength, 44 drops at 18mg strength, 33 drops at 24mg strength, 22 drops at 36mg strength, 16 drops at 48mg strength ][ Far less (~10% of that) can give you severe overdose symptoms (high blood pressure, anxiety, etc.) ][ Please be responsible with your e-juice, especially around kids and pets; wipe it up and off your skin whenever possible ] Keep the vaping community safe and responsible.

I saw the above on your post. Am I reading it correctly? If I have a bottle of juice that is 18 mg of nicotine, and I get 44 drops of the juice on my skin I could poison myself?

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Nicotine is a poison and yes if a large enough amount ends up on your skin it could become dangerous. This is the reason we no longer how low the discussion of high strength nicotine mixing on the forum.

Wow, I guess I thought the nicotine was diluted enough from the other ingredients there wasn't a chance of poisoning. When I fill my carts, there are sometimes drops around the edge that I wipe off, or sometimes the juice will leak out in my mouth. I need to be more careful!!

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It's always best to be sure not to overfill your carts/cartomizers and always wipe excess liquid with a paper towel or baby wipe :) Eventually, I have no doubt, bottled liquid will cease to exist in the future. My guess is, cartomizers will be the ultimate future of electronic cigarettes for safety reasons.

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My "seemingly delayed" response from the FDA about the letter I sent on the 9th.

Dear Lori:

Thank you for your message to the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research

(CDER), one of the six centers within the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

We appreciate your thoughts and suggestions regarding this issue. They are much

appreciated and have been noted.

Sincerely,

Division of Drug Information

D202D

This communication is consistent with 21 CFR 10.85 (k) and constitutes an

informal communication that represents our best judgment at this time but does

not constitute an advisory opinion, does not necessarily represent the formal

position of FDA, and does not bind or otherwise obligate or commit the agency to

the views expressed.

For up-to-date drug information, follow the FDA's Division of Drug Information

on Twitter at FDA_Drug_Info

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It's always best to be sure not to overfill your carts/cartomizers and always wipe excess liquid with a paper towel or baby wipe :) Eventually, I have no doubt, bottled liquid will cease to exist in the future. My guess is, cartomizers will be the ultimate future of electronic cigarettes for safety reasons.

Chris;

Thank you for the information! I will look into cartomizers now.rolleyes.gif

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Oh great! How many attys do I need to last for the next 40 years or so? Hmmm. About 960? Good grief. I better start stocking up. I can't stand cartos. And I can't taste the pre-made juice, so that would make them even worse for me. :crybaby:

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ok, time to get pissed.....

the FDA approves drugs for treatment of arthritis, erectile disfunction, high cholesterol etc..etc...ALL of those drugs that the FDA approved have side affects that have been documented, yet there are no reports of any of these kinds of side effects fro E-cigs, yet they want to target this industry?

Somewhere there is a check from Phillip Morris or RJ Reynolds written to the FDA....just gotta find out whose desk it's on.

Exactly right! And why is it that every time I read the word "regulate" in these articles, I actually read the word "tax"? Things that make you go HMMMMM!

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And then let's not forget that when they stopped requiring people to get prescriptions for other nicotine-containing products, they effectively made it an open market on nicotine-containing products.

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Facts everyone should know about e-juice: [ The nicotine "strength" is measured in mg/ml (not per bottle) ][ The LD50 (lethal dose) of nicotine is around 40mg ][ There are about 20 drops in a ml ][ Thus, directly absorbed into the skin, the following can be lethal: 133 drops at 6mg strength, 44 drops at 18mg strength, 33 drops at 24mg strength, 22 drops at 36mg strength, 16 drops at 48mg strength ][ Far less (~10% of that) can give you severe overdose symptoms (high blood pressure, anxiety, etc.) ][ Please be responsible with your e-juice, especially around kids and pets; wipe it up and off your skin whenever possible ] Keep the vaping community safe and responsible.

I saw the above on your post. Am I reading it correctly? If I have a bottle of juice that is 18 mg of nicotine, and I get 44 drops of the juice on my skin I could poison myself?

Yes, I overdosed once from too much juice on my hands. I think it was 24mg. It was a horrible feeling. "wipe it up and off your skin whenever possible" isn't good enough advice because that is what I did. If you get a lot of juice on your skin then don't just wipe off but wash off.

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Yes, I overdosed once from too much juice on my hands. I think it was 24mg. It was a horrible feeling. "wipe it up and off your skin whenever possible" isn't good enough advice because that is what I did. If you get a lot of juice on your skin then don't just wipe off but wash off.

Hmm, duly noted, and changed in my sig ;]

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It's always best to be sure not to overfill your carts/cartomizers and always wipe excess liquid with a paper towel or baby wipe :) Eventually, I have no doubt, bottled liquid will cease to exist in the future. My guess is, cartomizers will be the ultimate future of electronic cigarettes for safety reasons.

Question for you, or really, anyone with input on this...

Assume that electronic cigarettes are legalized.

1) Do you think that they'd be made with the same fittings we use now, or will they come up with some off-the-wall new fitting? This would make our current devices obsolete, unless people were allowed to make and sell adapters.

2) How would they be distributed? By prescription? Could you buy a pack of cartomizers at the gas station? None of the above?

3) How would the purity compare to what we vape now? Do you think they'll include any fun carcinogenic surprises?

Your prophecy sounds pretty realistic, and if I must, I will deal with it; but it seems like there is too much that could go wrong.

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Question for you, or really, anyone with input on this...

Assume that electronic cigarettes are legalized.

1) Do you think that they'd be made with the same fittings we use now, or will they come up with some off-the-wall new fitting? This would make our current devices obsolete, unless people were allowed to make and sell adapters.

2) How would they be distributed? By prescription? Could you buy a pack of cartomizers at the gas station? None of the above?

3) How would the purity compare to what we vape now? Do you think they'll include any fun carcinogenic surprises?

Your prophecy sounds pretty realistic, and if I must, I will deal with it; but it seems like there is too much that could go wrong.

I have gone over the ban scenario in my head a few times and I remember posting a topic underground e cigs, meaning keeping e cigs the way it is now or going mainstream, I am for underground but in a way that current vapers will not have to start over as far as buying something different then we are currently using, I hope they keep the same format as the industry is right now, I mean online purchasing and not prescribed or gas station overtaxed cartomizers that the government thinks equals 1 cart is 1 1/2 packs of real cigs.........idk man this topic "the future of e cigs" could have so many different scenarios its insane. :alien:

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Hmm, duly noted, and changed in my sig ;]

Wow I get a little liquid on my hands all the time and sometimes I dont wash it off, nothing crazy tho, just like when you flood your atty or cartos and it gets on your hands, I think I'll be alright but a great source of facts to follow, How did you find this out? interesting?

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Wow I get a little liquid on my hands all the time and sometimes I dont wash it off, nothing crazy tho, just like when you flood your atty or cartos and it gets on your hands, I think I'll be alright but a great source of facts to follow, How did you find this out? interesting?

Math. Every bit of it is in the sig. The only number I needed to start with was the 40mg LD50, which is widely available. Obviously all the numbers are approximate, and will vary based on body mass, etc.

Also the (again approximate) ~10% number was partially derived by some... unintentional experimentation.

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Wow I get a little liquid on my hands all the time and sometimes I dont wash it off, nothing crazy tho, just like when you flood your atty or cartos and it gets on your hands, I think I'll be alright but a great source of facts to follow, How did you find this out? interesting?

Well, I completely soaked my hand in nic juice. What you are talking about I use a hankie but if you start to "feel it" then wash your hands. When your common sense says there is way too much then listen to it and go wash your hands A.S.A.P.

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Math. Every bit of it is in the sig. The only number I needed to start with was the 40mg LD50, which is widely available. Obviously all the numbers are approximate, and will vary based on body mass, etc.

Also the (again approximate) ~10% number was partially derived by some... unintentional experimentation.

Appreciate the advice but is there a way you could incorporate a body weight type thing in this like you said and this starter number was derived from someone, 1 person 2, 3, 4 how many? and maybe to officially say this is the formula it should be based off of maybe more than 1 to 10 persons experience but I doubt people want to intentionally overdose just to make a more accurate scale so based on what you have composed is I guess the closest documentation of these facts, if im wrong maybe someone will correct me, if you could put in a way people could incorporate their body mass so we can figure out exactly what a leathol dose is or just tell me mine I weigh 210lbs, Thanx for info.

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Appreciate the advice but is there a way you could incorporate a body weight type thing in this like you said and this starter number was derived from someone, 1 person 2, 3, 4 how many? and maybe to officially say this is the formula it should be based off of maybe more than 1 to 10 persons experience but I doubt people want to intentionally overdose just to make a more accurate scale so based on what you have composed is I guess the closest documentation of these facts, if im wrong maybe someone will correct me, if you could put in a way people could incorporate their body mass so we can figure out exactly what a leathol dose is or just tell me mine I weigh 210lbs, Thanx for info.

The purpose of the sig is not to give people an accurate estimation on how much nic they need to overdose, it's merely a public service announcement. I'm no doctor and I certainly would not put my word on the perfect accuracy of the numbers. But the math doesn't lie. All the numbers are conservative with the intention of promoting safe and careful usage of juice and awareness of the dangers of misuse. The only direct estimation is the 10% number, and again it is conservative.

EDIT: edited again with disclaimer and source links :rolleyes2:

SECOND EDIT: I noticed that the wiki source, while it does have it's own source links, did not perfectly quote them. So in the interest of absolutely conservative estimates I will be lowering the numbers in my quote even further and re-doing all the math. For those interested, the original source is here, which specifies that the LD50 for adults is between 30-60 mg (Wiki quoted 40-60mg), and ~10mg for children. Obviously it's even less for pets, but depends highly on body weight, as unique pets mave much more variance in bodyweight than do unique humans.

... done with editing numbers.

Edited by mmseng

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