Compenstine

You go! It makes me feel good when people find out how DIY can not only be good, but just down right fun!

Taste it up............If its good now It will only get better   If you both like all the flavors that are in it you cant go wrong . It might not be exact as to what your use too but trial & error you will get it   Best part of DIY

As Jason said there is the fact that these regs will affect everyone differently. Me, personally, I'm set for a very long time. It is the new vapers and the ones still smoking and want to quit that will be done the most harm. I do have hope, but I must look at a more realistic view. Ever here the old saying "Hope for the best and plan for the worst", That would apply here.

As Jason said there is the fact that these regs will affect everyone differently. Me, personally, I'm set for a very long time. It is the new vapers and the ones still smoking and want to quit that will be done the most harm. I do have hope, but I must look at a more realistic view. Ever here the old saying "Hope for the best and plan for the worst", That would apply here.

I think you are missing the main point.  I agree that the FDA is not planning on banning vaping.  In fact, the regulations are poised to allow big tobacco to take over the industry.  That is the point.  Aside from a couple of large vaping manufacturers, nearly everybody else will be wiped out, paving the way for big tobacco to market their cig-a-likes, and opening the doors back up to regaining the "sin taxes".  
The fact that we will be able to keep our vaping gear and it doesn't mean a whole lot of changes for those of us who are established vapers, doesn't change the fact that new vapers will have very little choice in products and I predict that the success rate of people using vaping to quit smoking will plummet.
i don't mean to be doom and gloom. Vaping will survive. But bottom line, I think it is going to be less effective with regard to quitting cigarettes and all cost advantages will be removed thereby severely reducing it's efficacy.  

I think you are somewhat miss guided in your thoughts. It will cost me 8.5 billion to register every juice I have with all the variants. I'm just a small company with 49 flavors. The industry as a whole only brought in 5-6 billion for 2015. The numbers are facts and if just my one company needs more than the whole industry took in last year, then it will close 99% of them down. It is going to cost around 1 million per flavor per variant to apply for the PMTA and there is not a guarantee that it will even pass. Since 2009 only 1 product has passed the PMTA process and that was a Snus product. Big Tobacco are the only ones with the labs in place and money to push through the PMTA process.
Cost For PMTA on 1 of my Flavors Broke Down:
Hydra's Delight
0 mg PG 100/0 VG Cost 1 million
0 mg PG 90/10 VG Cost 1 million
0 mg PG 80/20 VG Cost 1 million
0 mg PG 70/30 VG Cost 1 million
0 mg PG 60/40 VG Cost 1 million
0 mg PG 55/45 VG Cost 1 million
0 mg PG 50/50 VG Cost 1 million
0 mg PG 45/55 VG Cost 1 million
0 mg PG 40/60 VG Cost 1 million
0 mg PG 30/70 VG Cost 1 million
0 mg PG 20/80 VG Cost 1 million
0 mg Max VG      Cost 1 million
2 mg PG 100/0 VG Cost 1 million
2 mg PG 90/10 VG Cost 1 million
2 mg PG 80/20 VG Cost 1 million
2 mg PG 70/30 VG Cost 1 million
2 mg PG 60/40 VG Cost 1 million
2 mg PG 55/45 VG Cost 1 million
2 mg PG 50/50 VG Cost 1 million
2 mg PG 45/55 VG Cost 1 million
2 mg PG 40/60 VG Cost 1 million
2 mg PG 30/70 VG Cost 1 million
2 mg PG 20/80 VG Cost 1 million
2 mg Max VG      Cost 1 million
4 mg PG 100/0 VG Cost 1 million
4 mg PG 90/10 VG Cost 1 million
4 mg PG 80/20 VG Cost 1 million
4 mg PG 70/30 VG Cost 1 million
4 mg PG 60/40 VG Cost 1 million
4 mg PG 55/45 VG Cost 1 million
4 mg PG 50/50 VG Cost 1 million
4 mg PG 45/55 VG Cost 1 million
4 mg PG 40/60 VG Cost 1 million
4 mg PG 30/70 VG Cost 1 million
4 mg PG 20/80 VG Cost 1 million
4 mg Max VG      Cost 1 million
6 mg PG 100/0 VG Cost 1 million
6 mg PG 90/10 VG Cost 1 million
6 mg PG 80/20 VG Cost 1 million
6 mg PG 70/30 VG Cost 1 million
6 mg PG 60/40 VG Cost 1 million
6 mg PG 55/45 VG Cost 1 million
6 mg PG 50/50 VG Cost 1 million
6 mg PG 45/55 VG Cost 1 million
6 mg PG 40/60 VG Cost 1 million
6 mg PG 30/70 VG Cost 1 million
6 mg PG 20/80 VG Cost 1 million
6 mg Max VG      Cost 1 million
8 mg PG 100/0 VG Cost 1 million
8 mg PG 90/10 VG Cost 1 million
8 mg PG 80/20 VG Cost 1 million
8 mg PG 70/30 VG Cost 1 million
8 mg PG 60/40 VG Cost 1 million
8 mg PG 55/45 VG Cost 1 million
8 mg PG 50/50 VG Cost 1 million
8 mg PG 45/55 VG Cost 1 million
8 mg PG 40/60 VG Cost 1 million
8 mg PG 30/70 VG Cost 1 million
8 mg PG 20/80 VG Cost 1 million
8 mg Max VG      Cost 1 million
10 mg PG 100/0 VG Cost 1 million
10 mg PG 90/10 VG Cost 1 million
10 mg PG 80/20 VG Cost 1 million
10 mg PG 70/30 VG Cost 1 million
10 mg PG 60/40 VG Cost 1 million
10 mg PG 55/45 VG Cost 1 million
10 mg PG 50/50 VG Cost 1 million
10 mg PG 45/55 VG Cost 1 million
10 mg PG 40/60 VG Cost 1 million
10 mg PG 30/70 VG Cost 1 million
10 mg PG 20/80 VG Cost 1 million
10 mg Max VG      Cost 1 million
12 mg PG 100/0 VG Cost 1 million
12 mg PG 90/10 VG Cost 1 million
12 mg PG 80/20 VG Cost 1 million
12 mg PG 70/30 VG Cost 1 million
12 mg PG 60/40 VG Cost 1 million
12 mg PG 55/45 VG Cost 1 million
12 mg PG 50/50 VG Cost 1 million
12 mg PG 45/55 VG Cost 1 million
12 mg PG 40/60 VG Cost 1 million
12 mg PG 30/70 VG Cost 1 million
12 mg PG 20/80 VG Cost 1 million
12 mg Max VG      Cost 1 million
14 mg PG 100/0 VG Cost 1 million
14 mg PG 90/10 VG Cost 1 million
14 mg PG 80/20 VG Cost 1 million
14 mg PG 70/30 VG Cost 1 million
14 mg PG 60/40 VG Cost 1 million
14 mg PG 55/45 VG Cost 1 million
14 mg PG 50/50 VG Cost 1 million
14 mg PG 45/55 VG Cost 1 million
14 mg PG 40/60 VG Cost 1 million
14 mg PG 30/70 VG Cost 1 million
14 mg PG 20/80 VG Cost 1 million
14 mg Max VG      Cost 1 million
16 mg PG 100/0 VG Cost 1 million
16 mg PG 90/10 VG Cost 1 million
16 mg PG 80/20 VG Cost 1 million
16 mg PG 70/30 VG Cost 1 million
16 mg PG 60/40 VG Cost 1 million
16 mg PG 55/45 VG Cost 1 million
16 mg PG 50/50 VG Cost 1 million
16 mg PG 45/55 VG Cost 1 million
16 mg PG 40/60 VG Cost 1 million
16 mg PG 30/70 VG Cost 1 million
16 mg PG 20/80 VG Cost 1 million
16 mg Max VG      Cost 1 million
18 mg PG 100/0 VG Cost 1 million
18 mg PG 90/10 VG Cost 1 million
18 mg PG 80/20 VG Cost 1 million
18 mg PG 70/30 VG Cost 1 million
18 mg PG 60/40 VG Cost 1 million
18 mg PG 55/45 VG Cost 1 million
18 mg PG 50/50 VG Cost 1 million
18 mg PG 45/55 VG Cost 1 million
18 mg PG 40/60 VG Cost 1 million
18 mg PG 30/70 VG Cost 1 million
18 mg PG 20/80 VG Cost 1 million
18 mg Max VG      Cost 1 million
20 mg PG 100/0 VG Cost 1 million
20 mg PG 90/10 VG Cost 1 million
20 mg PG 80/20 VG Cost 1 million
20 mg PG 70/30 VG Cost 1 million
20 mg PG 60/40 VG Cost 1 million
20 mg PG 55/45 VG Cost 1 million
20 mg PG 50/50 VG Cost 1 million
20 mg PG 45/55 VG Cost 1 million
20 mg PG 40/60 VG Cost 1 million
20 mg PG 30/70 VG Cost 1 million
20 mg PG 20/80 VG Cost 1 million
20 mg Max VG      Cost 1 million
24 mg PG 100/0 VG Cost 1 million
24 mg PG 90/10 VG Cost 1 million
24 mg PG 80/20 VG Cost 1 million
24 mg PG 70/30 VG Cost 1 million
24 mg PG 60/40 VG Cost 1 million
24 mg PG 55/45 VG Cost 1 million
24 mg PG 50/50 VG Cost 1 million
24 mg PG 45/55 VG Cost 1 million
24 mg PG 40/60 VG Cost 1 million
24 mg PG 30/70 VG Cost 1 million
24 mg PG 20/80 VG Cost 1 million
24 mg Max VG      Cost 1 million
28 mg PG 100/0 VG Cost 1 million
28 mg PG 90/10 VG Cost 1 million
28 mg PG 80/20 VG Cost 1 million
28 mg PG 70/30 VG Cost 1 million
28 mg PG 60/40 VG Cost 1 million
28 mg PG 55/45 VG Cost 1 million
28 mg PG 50/50 VG Cost 1 million
28 mg PG 45/55 VG Cost 1 million
28 mg PG 40/60 VG Cost 1 million
28 mg PG 30/70 VG Cost 1 million
28 mg PG 20/80 VG Cost 1 million
28 mg Max VG      Cost 1 million
32 mg PG 100/0 VG Cost 1 million
32 mg PG 90/10 VG Cost 1 million
32 mg PG 80/20 VG Cost 1 million
32 mg PG 70/30 VG Cost 1 million
32 mg PG 60/40 VG Cost 1 million
32 mg PG 55/45 VG Cost 1 million
32 mg PG 50/50 VG Cost 1 million
32 mg PG 45/55 VG Cost 1 million
32 mg PG 40/60 VG Cost 1 million
32 mg PG 30/70 VG Cost 1 million
32 mg PG 20/80 VG Cost 1 million
32 mg Max VG      Cost 1 million
Grand Total      $168,000,000.00 Just for 1 flavor, 1 bottle size. and all the variants. This does not include the other 3 bottle sizes or the options for extra flavor or sweetener.
The truth is in the math and given at a Min cost of $300,000.00 per flavor and variant the cost is $50,400,000.00
Sorry about the table below I can't delete it...
                                                       

This is why I'm playing it all by ear. I have supported HR2058 in every way possible to me and will continue to support it. I will not stop and close until the time I'm no longer able to continue. As you have said a lot can happen in two years. These deeming regs can (pipe dream) can be stopped and the FDA may have to start from square one. I'm keeping a close eye on everything that is being said and done.

Johnson Seeks Answers from FDA on Burdensome E-Cigarette Regulations

There has been a lot of talk about having 2 more years before things can get better or worse. I have been hearing that manufactures have until Dec 31st of 2016 to register their companies. This will involve a cost. Unsure of what that amount will be. Then there is a Feb date in 2017 that manufactures need to submit a list of every product sold, Ingredient of each product, where you buy the ingredients and testing results on each ingredient yada yada.
Start watching this video at around 1:11:00 They do talk about what is coming in August before this, this is where Demitri and Phil start talking about the other upcoming dates.
 
I'm in no way inciting a panic. Please understand we are all trying to understand what is coming down the pike so to speak. You may or may not see a large drop in stores because of this alone. When things affect suppliers they affect consumers. Please take the time to learn what is ahead. Most of all support the fight as best you can.
 

There has been a lot of talk about having 2 more years before things can get better or worse. I have been hearing that manufactures have until Dec 31st of 2016 to register their companies. This will involve a cost. Unsure of what that amount will be. Then there is a Feb date in 2017 that manufactures need to submit a list of every product sold, Ingredient of each product, where you buy the ingredients and testing results on each ingredient yada yada.
Start watching this video at around 1:11:00 They do talk about what is coming in August before this, this is where Demitri and Phil start talking about the other upcoming dates.
 
I'm in no way inciting a panic. Please understand we are all trying to understand what is coming down the pike so to speak. You may or may not see a large drop in stores because of this alone. When things affect suppliers they affect consumers. Please take the time to learn what is ahead. Most of all support the fight as best you can.
 

There has been a lot of talk about having 2 more years before things can get better or worse. I have been hearing that manufactures have until Dec 31st of 2016 to register their companies. This will involve a cost. Unsure of what that amount will be. Then there is a Feb date in 2017 that manufactures need to submit a list of every product sold, Ingredient of each product, where you buy the ingredients and testing results on each ingredient yada yada.
Start watching this video at around 1:11:00 They do talk about what is coming in August before this, this is where Demitri and Phil start talking about the other upcoming dates.
 
I'm in no way inciting a panic. Please understand we are all trying to understand what is coming down the pike so to speak. You may or may not see a large drop in stores because of this alone. When things affect suppliers they affect consumers. Please take the time to learn what is ahead. Most of all support the fight as best you can.
 

My dogs are indifferent to vapor, but my cat... well, he LOVES it, lol... At first I always thought he was just being a cat and chasing the cloud, but soon I figured out he was actually liking it.  Fruit flavors, bakery flavors, vanilla... he likes them all He also use to grab the smaller 10ml bottles and run off with them... well, he use to, that is...  Now, I only use 60ml glass bottles for my personal mixes, and I keep all my flavors, VG, PG, and Nicotine in the freezer (upright, that is, lol).   There's a few bottles of mixed liquids on the shelf next to my work-desk, but he doesn't bother them now that they are in glass, but he still chases the vapor around the room

That is more than likely true, however I can see the FDA trying to though.

It is.  The problem is that artificial flavorings can't be outlawed (everything would taste/smell pretty bland) and the FDA would have to prove that they are manufactured, and distributed with the intent to be used in a vaping product.  This would be impossible.  If you look at most of the sites they don't include vaping in their intended uses. Same with many other components.  Sandvik will not stop making Kanthal because the FDA thinks it should.  It isn't made for vaping, and they could care less that it is.  I have no way to know the total market share that vape products have in the resistance wire market, but I would have to assume that it is very small. 
 

LOL...  just a side note.  If you store nicotine in a bottle in the freezer, put it inside a plastic bag, then into a child proof container.  I had a liter in the top of the freezer.  When I got my second liter, I grabbed the first one, and it had leaked out about 50ml into the bag I had it wrapped in.  It was lying on it's side.  They are both wrapped separately, placed upright, inside a container now. It isn't child proof, but I am the only child who lives here (my wife is the adult).

Pure Nicotine (100%) yes is quite dangerous. However, when diluted, it is much less harmful. It can still do you harm if mishandled at 100mg (10%), but in most cases you can wash it off and be fine and also wear Neoprene gloves. At 50-25mg (5% 2.5%) it will not harm you unless you drink it but, you should wash it off if you get it on your skin. Yes all kids and animals should not have access to it. Like your E-Liquid, it should be kept in a locked box away from kids and animals. If mixed with VG or PG it can keep a long time in the freezer. It is best to eliminate all air from the bottle for long term storage (over 1 year). If stored properly it can last for several years.

All the flavor maker has to do is declare on their webpage is that their flavors are not intended or recommended for use in ejuice, everyone will know different, but at least their legal responsibility will be met. If Compenstine wants to he may be able to write a book on how to mix ejuice, and will make a lot of $ off the sales. When one door closes another one may open. 

Maybe that's part of the plan.  Scare the bejesus out of the retailers and watch them fold up themselves.  So far, the only thing I've noticed are signs going up at a couple shops saying "starting August - 21 I.D. Required" . That's it.  No other indications of panic.
 
I did, however, go online and buy two more evic vtc minis and a couple of samsungs and 4 more spare RBA decks.  And glass. Oh, and 2 more sub tank minis.   .   I'm not panicking.  I think of it as .......insurance.......

@Earthling789 Yes a lot can change in two years time. I'm not sure that it is a panic so much as it is throwing in the towel. A lot of vape shops were looking to cash in on the industry and are not willing to fight for change. The HR2058 is our best hope at the moment for some change. However this bill will stagnate the industry for many years to come. Congress now must slap the FDA down to really stop this from moving forward. It is very clear when you start adding up the cost for manufactures to make products to even put on the shelf to sell, that even retailers will not survive. It goes from a full store inventory to a small rack on a counter top. If even a small manufacture like my self is looking at having to pay 8.5 billion just to have no guarantee that the products can pass the PMTA, doors will close and close fast. I personally will hold out as long as I can and fight for the change, but it is an up hill battle.

@Earthling789 Yes a lot can change in two years time. I'm not sure that it is a panic so much as it is throwing in the towel. A lot of vape shops were looking to cash in on the industry and are not willing to fight for change. The HR2058 is our best hope at the moment for some change. However this bill will stagnate the industry for many years to come. Congress now must slap the FDA down to really stop this from moving forward. It is very clear when you start adding up the cost for manufactures to make products to even put on the shelf to sell, that even retailers will not survive. It goes from a full store inventory to a small rack on a counter top. If even a small manufacture like my self is looking at having to pay 8.5 billion just to have no guarantee that the products can pass the PMTA, doors will close and close fast. I personally will hold out as long as I can and fight for the change, but it is an up hill battle.

After watching the video I posted, I decided to put my flavors to the calculator. As the regs stand, it would cost me $8,428,000,000.00 to keep all the options for all the flavors offered. I would have to have this amount ready within the next 2 years. That is just one company with 49 flavors and this is not including the testing that would also need done on these flavors. I have seen numbers that say the Vape Industry in a 4 to 6 billion dollar a year industry as a whole... If you think these regs will not kill the industry? Please think again.

After watching the video I posted, I decided to put my flavors to the calculator. As the regs stand, it would cost me $8,428,000,000.00 to keep all the options for all the flavors offered. I would have to have this amount ready within the next 2 years. That is just one company with 49 flavors and this is not including the testing that would also need done on these flavors. I have seen numbers that say the Vape Industry in a 4 to 6 billion dollar a year industry as a whole... If you think these regs will not kill the industry? Please think again.

Worth posting in both threads:
 

4 years...? My how time flies!   Congrats TAM!