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help with using twisted kanthal as a coil


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#11 jsr27

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 12:11 PM

thanks





#12 CloudWizard

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 06:54 AM

I wonder why the different wicks call for different types of wire?  I thought it was just some kind of personal preference thing.  I'll have to dive deeper into that I suppose. 

 

So, JsR, try wrapping your wick with single wire to achieve your 3.0 ohm.  (guesstimating here, but I'd say about 10 wraps with the 28). 

Now that you have a base to go by, twist a long strand that is longer than your single strand was by 1/4 to 1/2.  Good luck getting that many strands on there though! 

It would be so much easier to achieve this with 32gauge wire, because it starts out higher resistance to begin with. 

 

The higher the resistance, the slower the action, but for some reason the flavor is usually better (depends on the variances of everything of course).  I have one genny set up at 0.8 for instant gratification, another at 1.2 and yet another at 2.5.  Sometimes I like a long slow relaxing draw, sometimes I want a quick puff.  The flavor, if using the same flavor, will be different in each, minor, but different.  I usually use different flavors in each though. 

 

Let me ask one of my mentors your question, and I'll get back to you if/when I hear anything. 

Hi Uma,

 

Kanthal and Nichrome have different resistances/length.  Kanthal is typically +10% resistance for the same length.  So, on silica wicks you can get more twists with Nichome than Kanthal for the same resistance.  For me, I use Kanthal on everything simply because it has a higher melting point so I pop fewer coils on ultra-LR.

 

On the twisted wire, resistance is a measure of how much restriction is put on the flow of electricity.  Like a water pipe, the smaller the pipe the more restriction.  Unlike dual coil cartos (completely independant coils - 2x 3.0Ω coils => 1.5ΩDCC) a twisted wire is touching along the whole length so you don't actually get "double the flow".  It does lower the resistance to about ~2/3 (not 1/2).  I haven't used twisted wires in a while instead opted for getting fatter wires.  Where I used to twist 32awg, I now pretty exclusively use 28awg or 30awg.  Twisted wires give a different type of flavor to me, slightly muted but also are very easy to work with and very forgiving for wrapping.

 

What I'm really enjoying these days is 0.6mm x 0.1mm Kanthal ribbon.  I wrap it the same as 30awg/28awg: 2/3 on fat wicks and 3/4 on thinner wicks.

 

Let me know if I've missed the point with these responses (multi-tasking atm...)


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#13 Uma

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:27 AM

Wow!!  Thank you so much for this Cloud!!   I needed this lesson as much as the Opening Poster.  Learning the various wires, resistances, is the hardest part for a lot of us, I know I always seem to get my learning wires crossed one way or another.  

 

Thank you very very much for taking the time to come share with us.  It's mentors like you who make the learning curves bearable and the aha moments possible.  You're the best!!!



#14 jsr27

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 01:05 PM

i could nt have said it better myself but am still lost about the wrapping thing.



#15 Uma

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 01:36 PM

He told me that he's never tried for 3.0 ohm with twisted 28awg, preferring the LR coils for his particular vaping setups.  He suggests using a higher resistance wire to begin with, such as the 32awg,   CloudWizard, Rixter, myself, all use the SS mesh wick genesis style attys, and these are a different diameter/radius to wrap than your VN.  It makes it more difficult to come up with a concrete answer for you.  But, with that said, he provided all the basic information needed in order to begin experimenting.  Do you have 32awg available? 

 

28awg is a low resistance wire.

Twisted wire lowers the resistance of any awg wire even more so, yet it takes a bit longer to warm up than the single strand does.  It also pops less because it is stronger. 

 

The normal 32awg wire, for instance, takes a good 6 wraps to make the VV mods happy, usually ohming in at around 2.0 to 2.5. 

(depends on if the wick is thin, medium or fat).  The thinner the wick, the more wraps needed. 

A concrete answer calls for a VN specialist I'm afraid.  Sorry. 

 

But it was great to learn about the differences between Kanthal and Nichochrome(sp), and the different gauges of wire.  Even the flat ribbon wire was introduced.  This info will be, and is, important for any rebuildable type of atty. 

 

We'll have to delve deeper into the VN underworld for a precise answer to your question. 



#16 CloudWizard

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 07:06 PM

Ok, since you made me curious I went ahead and rebuilt a Vivi Nova Mini (same rebuildable heads as the bigger ones).  I used a 5/6 of 32awg KanthalA1 on COV 3mm silica with a paperclip as a guide (it's all i have since it's what I use in my Pennies and Odys).  And the verdict - 2.7Ω I used single strand wire (not twisted) or it would've come in around 1.5Ω with 5/6.

 

To answer the question about wraps, you'll always see folks give x/y because when you wrap a coil there is always 1 side that doesn't complete a loop.  So in this case I wrapped a 5/6 meaning if you look at the top of the coil you see 6 wires and if you looked from the bottom (because the 2 tails stick down the bottom) you'd only count 5.

 

Lesson learned, there's not a lot of room inside the little cradle that hold the coil.  6 wide was a bit finicky as it touched the side and shorted (easy to fix by just squeezing in towards the center to compress the coil) so next time for ease of use I'd do 4/5 of 32awg and it'd come in around 2.2Ω-2.3Ω.

 

I did all my setup on a Vamo since I think in your original post you said that's what you're were using, decent vape @9watts :-)

 

Have fun building!


Edited by CloudWizard, 02 April 2013 - 07:08 PM.

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#17 jsr27

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 10:43 PM

i finally get it. it usually takes me a minute for me to understand but once get it i got it! thanks a ton :thumbup:  :thumbup:  



#18 Uma

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:42 AM

I'm so glad this was resolved!  Thank you Cloud for all your help, and for experimenting on the device itself to test it's wrapping limits.  Not only is the diameter of the wick pertinent, so is the height. 

I think I now know why the 3.0 ohm Viva Nova replacement heads are so impossible to find.  



#19 BigErn

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:15 PM

Honestly, having used twisted Kanthal for a long while, I thought it was the bees knees. However, buy a spool of ribbon Kanthal D and I guarantee you will never want to use anything else.
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#20 Lavafirecig

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:14 AM

i tried , 2 wicks or 3 wick, 4 wicks, i found that 4 wicks work best.

and with different coil, the resistance is different.

Gosh! that about 2.8 ohm works good with most batteries.

do you have the same feeling?